ШАБЛЯ ПАРАДНА КАВАЛЕРІЙСЬКА ВІЛКІНСОН ТА ЗОЛІНГЕН?

КЛЕЙМО ВІЛКІНСОН ТА ЗОЛІНГЕН? Адже відомо що в золінгені виготовлялись шаблі для США теж

ГАЙКА НА РУЧЦІ НЕ РІДНА

ЗНАЙШОВ ТАКУ САМУ У ПРОДАЖУ В США АЛЕ ВОНИ НЕ ЗНАЮТЬ ЧИ РЕПЛІКА ЧИ РЕПРОДУКЦІЯ
НА ТІЙ ЩО ВИЩЕ ВКАЗАНА ДАТА ВИГОТОВЛЕННЯ 1848 РІК ТА КЛЕЙМО ВІЛКІНСОН ТА ЗОЛІНГЕН?, ВИГОТОВИТЕЛЯ ШАБЕЛЬ ТОГО ПЕРІОДУ ДЛЯ АМЕРИКИ.
Розміри описаної нижче шалі збігаються повністю

ОПИС З АУКЦІОНА ШАБЛІ СХОЖОЇ В АУКЦІОНІ 
індійського виробництва
штамп INDIA
ТА КІНЦІВКА ВІДРІЗНЯЄТЬСЯ У ПІХВАХ СКРУГЛЕНА А НА МОЇЙ РІВНА

ІНДІЯ


МОЯ

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-22-1-2-BLADE-CIVIL-WAR-STYLE-SWORD-or-REPRODUCTION-SWORD-w-SCABBARD-/360790372262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5400c82fa6

OLD SWORD WITH SCABBARD, IT LOOKS LIKE A CIVIL WAR  SHORT SWORD. I THINK IT MIGHT BE A OLD REPLICA, OR A REPRODUCTION SWORD  I DON'T THINK IT'S A REAL CIVIL WAR SWORD, IT WAS FOUND IN A OLD HOUSE I SOLD A LONG TIME AGO, THE SCABBARD WAS AND STILL IS ALL RUSTED AND HAS SPOTS ALL OVER IT, BUT WHEN I PULLED THE SWORD OUT IT WAS IN  GOOD CONDITION, BUT OVER TIME THE WIRE THAT IS ON THE HANDLE HAS COME LOOSE AND BROKE IN SOME PLACES, IT'S STILL ON THE PIECE BUT HAS COME LOOSE AND BROKE.  iT DO NOT SHOW IN THE PICTURE, IT HAPPEN AFTER THE PICTURES WAS TAKEN.   I HAVE HAD IT IN STORAGE FOR A LONG TIME. THE SCABBARD KEPT THE SWORD BLADE CLEAN AND IN GOOD CONDITION.  THE BLADE HAS A MARK ON IT I CAN'T TELL IF IT HAS --INLI--- OR INDI, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONLY MARKS I FOUND ON IT. THE SWORD IN THE SCABBARD IS ABOUT 28", THE SCABBARD ALONG IS ABOUT 24", THE SWORD IS ABOUT 27" THE BLADE ALONG IS ABOUT 22 1/2". IT'S OLD AND THE SCABBARD IS RUSTED, AND MIGHT HAVE SOME SCRATCHES ON THE BLADE. >>>>>>> SOLD AS IS <<<<<<<<

OLD SWORD WITH SCABBARD, IT LOOKS LIKE A CIVIL WAR  SHORT SWORD. I THINK IT MIGHT BE A OLD REPLICA, OR A REPRODUCTION SWORD  I DON'T THINK IT'S A REAL CIVIL WAR SWORD, IT WAS FOUND IN A OLD HOUSE I SOLD A LONG TIME AGO, THE SCABBARD WAS AND STILL IS ALL RUSTED AND HAS SPOTS ALL OVER IT, BUT WHEN I PULLED THE SWORD OUT IT WAS IN  GOOD CONDITION, BUT OVER TIME THE WIRE THAT IS ON THE HANDLE HAS COME LOOSE AND BROKE IN SOME PLACES, IT'S STILL ON THE PIECE BUT HAS COME LOOSE AND BROKE.  iT DO NOT SHOW IN THE PICTURE, IT HAPPEN AFTER THE PICTURES WAS TAKEN.   I HAVE HAD IT IN STORAGE FOR A LONG TIME. THE SCABBARD KEPT THE SWORD BLADE CLEAN AND IN GOOD CONDITION.  THE BLADE HAS A MARK ON IT I CAN'T TELL IF IT HAS --INLI--- OR INDI, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONLY MARKS I FOUND ON IT. THE SWORD IN THE SCABBARD IS ABOUT 28", THE SCABBARD ALONG IS ABOUT 24", THE SWORD IS ABOUT 27" THE BLADE ALONG IS ABOUT 22 1/2". IT'S OLD AND THE SCABBARD IS RUSTED, AND MIGHT HAVE SOME SCRATCHES ON THE BLADE. >>>>>>> SOLD AS IS <<<<<<<<

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# BQ761 - Mexican Cavalry Sword, ca. 1870 - $ 470.00

This sword is 32 3/8" O.A.L. based on the M.1860 U.S. Cav. Riccaso stamped A.C. MEXICO. The blade is period shortened to 26 1/4" L. Original hard wood grip , brass guard slightly deformed. Fine untouched age patina to entire sword, minus scabbard.

M 1840 Cavalry Officer Sword - Rare Eagle / US Guard

Item #: SJM234

M 1840 Cavalry Officer Sword - Rare decorated Guard with Eagle & US on quillon.

Manufd: Solingen
Maker: S & K-Schnitzler & Kirschbaum
Year: 1861-65
Model: M 1840 Cavalry Officer Sword
Size: 35.25
Condition: VG

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $2,850 USD

M 1840 Cavalry Officer Sword - Rare decorated Guard. Quillon having an American Eagle With Federal shield containing a U.S. Made by  by S & K. (Schnitzler & Kirschbaum). The Guard has fancy casting in which a "war eagle" (holding arrows only) is cast into the top of the quillon.  Outer branches are hand chased and flat of the knuckle bow has cast decoration as well as the under side of the guard. Sharkskin grip and double twisted wire shows use but has no issues.  Blade is etched and has turned gray (never cleaned).  Obverse blade has Schnitzler & Kirschbaum Solingen / foliate - urn - foliate / stand of arms / foliate / stand of arms / foliate.  Reverse side etch is identical to obverse.
Scabbard is blued steel and has taken on a blue / brown patina.  Brass throat is missing but brass cast ring bands and fancy cast drag are in great condition.

Hilt, Note the fancy cast on the top of the knuckle bow

Reverse showing decorated Knuckle bow and pommel.

Quillon having an American Eagle With Federal shield containing a U.S. NOTE: Arrows in both talons (Eagle of war time)

Under side of guard and branch decoration.

Top of pommel and decorated wreath around the eagle

Overview

Overview

Decorated Brass Scabbard mounts

Sauerbier Enlisted Cavalry Saber Type 1

Item #: SJM121

Sauerbier Enlisted Cavalry Saber Type 1

Manufd: Newark NJ
Maker: Sauerbier
Year: CW
Model: 1840
Size: 35 5/8 inch
Condition: Excellent

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $2,850 USD

Sauerbier enlisted cavalry saber. Rare item not often encountered. Not marked but the classic hilt profile, thick guard, spanner nut, pinked washer and blade fuller is clearly Sauerbier. Sauerbier's class's steel scabbard has brass throat and thick ramped steel drag. All fascists of this sword are excellent. Leather grip, wire, washer, guard, pommel, blade and scabbard -- all excellent.

Collins & Co. 1861 dated M1840 Cavalry Officer

Item #: USCO3

 Very ornate Guard & Pommel, Brass Mounted Scabbard

Manufd: Hartford, CT
Maker: Collins & Co.
Year: 1861
Model: M1840
Size: 35.25 in bl.
Condition: VG-Exc

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $3,800 USD

Early war production of a Cavalry Officer's sword by and marked: Collins & Co. / Hartford / Conn. Reverse ricasso marked with the date: 1861. This hilt is heavily gilded and very fancy both in casting design and in decorative embellishment. The grip is sharkskin wrapped with very fine twisted brass wire with a single strand on each side. The blade is a standard M1840 with the previously mentioned markings and no etched design. In the rush to produce early war sabers this seems quite logical. The steel scabbard is nicely finished with brass throat, fancy decorated ring mounts and a 6.5 inch sheet brass drag, each held by a single brass screw.

1860 Ames Pattern Cavalry Officer Saber by S H & G

Item #: SER363

 Cavalry Officer with Ames M1860 style Cavalry Officer Hilt

Manufd: -
Maker: Schuyler, Hartley & Graham
Year: Civil War
Model: 1860
Size: -
Condition: VG+

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $3,700 USD

Original Ames letters complain about importers copying their swords. This is one of those swords. It was sold by the famed New York firm of Schuyler, Hartley & Graham. The hilt has the same decoration as Ames Cavalry Officer Swords. The grip is covered in Sharkskin but a little thicker than Ames. The decorated pommel is very similar to Ames. The nicely etched blade Has the motto- Stand by the Union- and is marked SH&G. The blade showswear but the etching is all legible. It has the original bright steel scabbard which is very good condition with no dents. An important sword of a US Cavalry Officer.

M 1833 Horstmann M1840 with E&S Keystone marking

Item #: SG249

5000 blades were ordered by Horstmann from Emerson & Silver. This is a super example of the Horstmann saber with the Emerson & Silver made blade.

Manufd: Philadelphia, PA, Trenton, NJ
Maker: Horstmann, E & S blade
Year: pre civil war
Model: M1840 Enlisted
Size: 35.5 inch blade, 1 1/8 wide
Condition: Excellent+

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $2,250 USD

Type one Horstmann Cavalry Saber. 35 5/8 in blade Marked Horstmann's / Phila. on the reverse and the Keystone blade mark of Emerson & Silver, Trenton, NJ on the reverse. Emerson & Silver called their foundry The Keystone Works. This is likely one of the original 5000 ordered by Horstmann.The markings are sharp and clear. The grip is original polished leather and twisted brass wire. The guard is cast with a large opening for the hand. The scabbard has a soldered throat and a large style drag often found on Philadelphia and NJ scabbards. The entire sword and scabbard are near mint.

M1840 Tiffany Iron Guard enlisted cavalry saber

Item #: SJM122

 M1840 Tiffany Iron Guard enlisted cavalry saber

Manufd: Solingen
Maker: PDL / Tiffany
Year: CW
Model: M1840
Size: 36 inch 1 1/4 w
Condition: Fine

Qty:                  1                                   

Price: $995 USD

Tiffany Iron Guard enlisted cavalry saber manufactured by PDL. Heavy M1840 imported by Tiffany from PDL in Solingen. PDL made some of the finest saber of the civil war and Tiffany's use indicates this fact. . PDL marked on the reverse ricasso and Tiffany NY on the obverse ricasso. Blade is somewhat dark and shows use by some small blade nicks.  Leather grip 80% with all twisted wire still present.  Steel scabbard unquestionably of the period but may not be a PDL product as it does not have proper screws at the throat normally seen on this style of saber.

  

1860 Model US Cavalry Sabre, Ames, Dated 1861 for sale

In very good condition, a superb United States Civil War cavlary sabre that clearly has seen use.

This is an early US Civil War cavalry sabre, made in 1861 when the war started, and has clear signs of use (multiple stirrup dings to the front of the scabbard) and some nicks to the cutting edge of the blade. The maker's name is virtually worn away from the sheathing and drawing of this sword. Marked US CCG (inspector G. G. Sanders) 1861. It has been around, and for sure has seen battle against the Southern Confederate States.

WILKINSON клейма



Wilkinsons DID supply completed swords to outfitters, tailors etc etc but NEVER sword parts such as blades. Replacement scabbard obviously YES but no components. Change over hilts YES but not separate Hilts. 
It was basically a complete sword or nothing.

The Proof marks used by Wilkinson were:
BEST PROVED @ £3-15-0 (HW in slug)
PROVED - OUTFITTER'S QUALITY @ £2-2-0
The OUTFITTERS QUALITY which were used for colonial contract swords as well as Outfitters who wouldn't pay the BEST PROOF price used a variety of slugs including
PROVED over a Crown -
PROVED over a Fleur de Lys
PROVED T

The Crown, Fleurs de Lys and T were in common use, the earliest being the Fleur de Lys (circa 1860's) followed by the Crown (circa 1880's) and the T (which stood for Tested rather than proved) in the 1870 period. 

In Observations on Swords from the 1870’s Wilkinson warned about other copying his proof marks. They also wanted to differentiate between their BEST PROOF and the others blades and came up with these designs. Immediately the other makers started using them, so Wilkinsons thought up another etc but by the early 20th century Wilkinsons just etched a fancy W in the double triangle on OUTFITTERS QUALITY sword so saving the cost of milling the hole for the proof slug.
Here are two lists of retailers supplied, one from an Index page and the other from the etching plates. 

The Name of the retailer would usually be on one side and Wilkinson Sword logo on the other and Wilkinson Number on the back of the blade for BEST PROOF swords which also had the HW proof slug.

For OUTFITTERS swords, the name of the retailer would appear with Wilkinson Logo, maybe a sword number on the back of the blade (Sometimes this may be the retailers order number as one finds with Hawkes swords etc) and one of the ordinary pattern proof slugs, depending on the date of the sword (see above) or after about 1910, just a W etched within the double triangle.

NOTE- This list is NOT exhaustive and there are others NOW-listed below in Word document. The names range in date from the 1870's onward and I apologise for any repetition with these two lists below
Robert





here are some more RETAILERS taken from the Master Etching Plates:- (Apologies if some are duplicates!

Outfitters, Tailors etc appearing on Wilkinson Etching Plates.

A Jacobs, Civil & Military Tailors, Plein St, Cape Town
Alkit, Cambridge Circus, London WC
Army & Navy Stores, 105 Victoria St, London SW
Ascher, bedford St, Strand
Ashoo Tosh, Davis & Co, Calcutta
Austin Reed, 103-113 Regebt Street
Barton & Sons & C0 Bangalore
Belwarp Ltd, Bradford, England
Bloomenstock & Co, Bombay
Broock & Sons, 57 George St, Edinburgh
C.C. Whitelock, Leeds
Conway Williams, 27 Princes St, London
E.T. Manning & Co, 124 New Bond St. W
F.T. James, King St, St James's. London
H.J. Scott & Sons, Beccles
Harper & Co, Rosemary St, Belfast
Henry Starck, 31 Drummond Cres. London NW
Hill bros, 30 Bond Street
Holt & Co, Sackville St, London SW!
Humphrey & Cook, 3 Haymarket, SW1
Humphrey & Cross, Haymarket SW
J Cracknell, Outfitter, Portsea
J Daniels & Co, 62 Pall Mall
J Moss (Cambridge Circus) Charing Cross Road EC2
J. Platt & Co, St martins Lane, London
James Beddol, Pembroke
John Hutton & Sons, Newscastle on Tyne
K Mamood Shan's Outfitters, Ludhiana (Punjab) 
Larcan & Veystry, Outfitters, Portsmouth
Malcolm Kearton, 29 Fenchurch St, London
Martin & Co, Culcutta & delhi
Max Luckerby & Co, 574 5th Avenue, new York
Messrs Thomas & Coles, 124 The Parade, lemington
Miller & Sons, Royal Albert Dock, London
P Orr & Sons, madras and Rangoon
Phelps & Co, Calcutta
Pipe McGill, Bedford Street, Strand WC2
R Groves, 55 Wellington St, Woolwich
R&S Garrard, haymarlet, London W.1
R.G. James & Co, 15 Queen Street, Portsmout
Rankin & Dobbie PTy, Melbourne
Richard & Co, 26 King St, St James's. London
Robinson & Steel, Dublin
Rodgers & Co new Burlington Street
S Keenan, Fort St. Ayr
Samuel Gardener, 1 Clifford Street, Savile Row. London
Samuel Lee & Co, Capetown
Sanderson Bros and Newbolt, Sheffield
Shelly Brooks Ltd, Artillery Place, Woolwich
Stonwasser & Winter, 39 Conduit St, SW
Stutz, Binnie & Graccs, Clifford Street, London
T Birkley & C0, London St, EC
T.W. Castle, 27 Savile Row, London W
Taylor & Co, Army & Navy Outfitters, Portsmouth
The Aldeshot Stores, Aldeshot
The N.O.O.S - Goldman's Branches at All Naval Ports
Trayler & Co, High Street, Porstmouth
Uniform Clothing Co Ltd, 10 Clerkenwell Green, London EC
Walter Locke & Co, Calcutta
Walton & Co, The Hard, Portsmouth
Watson & Co, Army Contractors, Port Elizabeth
Watson &Co, 50 Strad St, Calcutta
West & Son, Dublin
WH Gore, 40 Panton Street,Haymarket
Wilkinson & C0, St James's St. Souithsea
Wiseman, Sackville St, Picadilly, W
Woodhouse, Portsmouth

Wilkinson supplied all branches. They had one etch for the London, Camberly, Aldershot swords and one for the 'head office' Winchester swords.

Here are the etches from the Master Etching plates.

The Winchester etches are on plates circa 1890's but this cannot be taken as Gospel as the etchers often used up space on existing plates. The London Camberly and Aldershot etch is later, reflecting Flight becoming a Limited Company (Flights, Ltd) in 1920

Flights, Ltd 1920 - 1950
4 New Burlington St , London
Flights Ltd - 1920
90 High St, Winchester

Hope that helps
Robert

 Attached Thumbnails

            Attached Thumbnails

  

LIST FROM NEW RESEARCH OF WILKINSON SWORD BLADE ETCHERS:-

The earliest Proof slip with a printed notification of "embossed"ie etched is 5541 date
2/11/54.*

The names that dominate from then are*
Howell,* (corrected 21/1/12)
Pearsall,*
Randall,*
Friskney,
Appleby,*
W.F. & Co.,*
R. & Co.(Reeves & Co.?)*
Pike*

but unfortunately many are just initials.

Henshaw (1844-1854 -he died in that year)is not mentioned as pre Numbered Proof dockets.


The earliest mention of**Rowe is 2 June 1855 for blade 6583.

Rowe is recorded etching *blade 6262 but this was embossed at the
later date of 30 April 1859, it was proved on 10 April 1855.

Rowe appears only occasionally in the 1850's *so he might be an apprentice.*(Just a guess)he appears on 8678 (1857), 9478 (1858), 9931(1859)
11038 (1860), - Also in 1860 (11039),*3281 (1864) is Rowe,*112611 (1865) is Rowe. 18058 (1871) is Rowe. After 1873 Rowe seems to have the stage ti himself although with blank dockets is is difficult to say for sure if freelance etchers were bought in. *We do know that Argll joined in 1885.

Peardsall still etching as well as Randall (11095 -1861)

13432 0f 1864 is Kerkhoff(?),*

13935 (1865) is Appleby as is 24444 (1866) and 14966 (1867) as well as 17292(1871) as is 19031 (1873)

Rowe spent 42 years with Wilkinson so retiring in the late 1890's (?)

Argyll 1885-1945
J Riley 1910-1930
C Web 1938-1969
Adamovitch 1961-1983
Ray Humphries to 2005.

Here is a view from Rowe's etching table at 27 Pall Mall dated 1870 drawn on an olf 'Embossing Sli' from the Proof Book

 Attached Thumbnails

  

Here is a list from the 1882 GPO London Directory showing the names of sword makers and sword cutlers.

 Attached Thumbnails

  

here are two more from 1893 and 1902 - Note the adition of German makers and or agents!

 Attached Thumbnails

  

Bill Bonner - Head Bladesmith
Tom Beasley Bladesmith

Mr Appleyard - Grinding Mill Foreman

Walter Johnson - Head Fitter
George Johnson - Fitter
Ernie Johnson - Fitter
Herbert MacNab-Fiter

The Jonsons, father, uncle and son came from Reeves

William Morton Pattern Maker

and of course the etchers
W Rowe
Campbell Argyll

The in house Government Inspector was a Mr Woodley (His stamp was W49) - He was a Wilkinson employee but registered as a Government Inspector.

Management was:-
John Francis Wilkinson Latham
Henry Wilkinson Latham
assisted by:-
John Tolhurst Musgrave
Thomas Henry Randolph (described as clerk to the Engineer who was Henry Wilkinson Latham)

Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 02-01-2012 at 02:05 AM.